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2020-04-01 13:02 developer |
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I explain to the attached file "RFP_HW_FII_Request_200331.xlsx" see the below picture. the yellow column named document is document what I want. for easy understanding, I add some examples ar Remark column SWAN_RFP_HW.gif (73,223 bytes) |
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Hi Sean I update my comment ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- from your mail ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. For item 5.6, we will update the power tree by next Wednesday. [SB 0402] Got it 2. For Item 5.7.2, what's the FFV test? Could you specify the purpose of this test? Any test condition and requirement from SKB? [SB 0402] I2S and FFV test picture for distance 3. For Item 5.17, the LED spec. still be *11 "RGB color" for AI and * 2 "white color" for STB based on the latest SWAN spec. v1.0? [SB 0402] The LED q’ty for STB status is 1EA (Please read the Emma's reply mail .) 4. For item 7, our HWQA team is checking the SWAN spec. and we will update the reliability test plan by next Friday. [SB 0402] Got it --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- from your wechat --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. FFV means the Far Field Voice, right? From my understanding, it required to verify the distance of far field voice pickup for microphone? Or only need to check the timing for I2S? [SB 0402] FFV is Far Field Voice. synaptics Voice DSP chip has I2S TX/RX. so please update both test picture for conducting I2S and test setup picture for distance. 2. Hi SB, can we keep using Eagle’s PCB to update the test setup for SWAN RFP? We haven’t start the SWAN PCBA design yet! [SB 0402] Yes, you are right. so could you please change the Eagle PCBA picture to general DUT picture (see the attached excel file) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excel file ------------------------- 1. Most picture and your comments are done very well. 2. And I updated my comment at excel file (see the comment "[SB0402]~~~~~~") |
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Hi SB, Got it. We will modify the HW RFP based on V1_2 according and update it by next week. Hi Tom and Fu-Chiang, Please follow it up. Thanks. |
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Hi SB, Please find updated HW RFP as attached. We are still working with our QA team and vendor for below items. Will update them by this Friday. 1. FFV and reliability test plan. 2. We are checking with vendor for the display solution of sound field mode. The block diagram and power tree may need update again later. |
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Attached HW RFP. |
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Hi Sean Thank you for your support. 1. please update power consumption test setup again. if the picture size up, it looks blurred. (please see the below picture) 2 reliability test plan - you first commented the reliablility test plan could be updated until 04/10. the schedule is delayed? power consumption test setup photo.gif (54,073 bytes) |
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Hi SB, Update the picture of power consumption. Thank you. power consumption.png (119,543 bytes) |
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Hi SB, 2 reliability test plan - you first commented the reliablility test plan could be updated until 04/10. the schedule is delayed? ==> No, We can provide you reliability plan by tomorrow (4/10). |
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Hi Sean could you please give me the datasheet "PJ857-F06G1BR-A"? |
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Hi, SB Attached is the datasheet "PJ857-F06G1BR-A" for you reference. |
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thank you Sean, Tom, Fu-chiang |
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Hi SB, Update HW RFP as attached. 1. FFV test setup 2. Reliability test plan 3. Update test setup for MIC & AUX input and picture of power consumption setup. For reliability test, can you confirm that the thermal requirement is the same as Eagle at 50degC? |
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Hi Sean. thank you for supporting the reliability test, the same to Eagle. High temperature is 50 degC, Low temperature is -5 degC please change the temperature and update again. |
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Hi Sean I have a question about block diagram (see the below picture) What is the input voltage of the CX9000 (AMP for SPK)? (because the power branch has 12V, 1V, 1.05V,1.2V, 1.8V 3.3v and 2.5V.) If the AMP input voltage is not 24V, I think the output is not enough. SWAN_Blockdiagram_power.gif (16,655 bytes) |
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Hi SB, Update HW RFP as attached. 1. Update high/low temperature of reliability plan to 50/-5 deg.C. For the CX9000, the input voltage is 12V. You can refer the system block diagram or power tree design. Can you confirm the impedance of speaker units for woofer and tweeter? Are they 4ohm or 8ohm? Currently, we propose one CX9000 to drive 2 x 15.5W into 4ohm speaker. Based on this condition, the AMP output design is enough. |
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Update HW RFP as attached. |
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Hi Sean. Thank you for support. According to SKB's RFP, SWAN should be meet under 40 degree for all side of housing please change the test criteria (see the below picture) thermal criteria.gif (9,594 bytes) |
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Hi SB, According to SKB's RFP, SWAN should be meet under 40 degree for all side of housing ==> All side of housing should be under 40deg.C @ 25deg.C ambient but the bottom side is not included, right? |
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Hi Sean Bottom side is also under 40degC |
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Hi, SB The dimension of DC Jack and DC Plug, are the same as Eagle project, or design a new specification for SWAN ? |
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Hi Tom I don't know yet. I don't receive the adapter datasheet. If I take it, I'll update at mantis |
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Hi SB, If the housing temperature spec. on each side is 40degC especially for bottom side, we have to make sure the thermal simulation can be passed before housing size & structure confirmed. Please note it and inform INKEL to be aware of this. Thanks. |
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Hi Sean. after Kick off. I'll have a meeting with Inkel, I share the thermal agenda. |
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Hi Henry, Sean I have a question for SWAN project JW Kim is gathering information of SWAN project. So I ask you for technical information. 1. SMPS inside Sound Bar 1) Is an inner SMPS possible? - I know FII can design and make SMPS. But Can you develop SMPS of SWAN with no change SWAN schedule - You should consider the KC certification. If FII develop SMPS, the KC certification time is too long. - SMPS is not confirmed yet. It is option B. 2) If you develop SMPS (Output voltage can be replaced the 24V/4A adapter) Could you give me the PCB Size approximately? 2. One board (STB + Audio amp block) 1) JWKim said that Audio amp block is designed another Korean company. And the Settop block and Audio amp block is not separated but designed One board. 2) In that case, which information is needed to you? - For example, schematic, pcb file, BOM and so on 3) If I give you the information of Audio block size, can you submit the One board pcb size? (One board means Settop block and Audio block) |
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Hi Henry, Sean I gave you more information of One board 1. the Audio block pcb size is about 60x60mm (Please see the block diagram below pictue) 2. Could you please update One board PCB size Audio_diagram.gif (24,926 bytes) |
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2020-05-15 09:56 developer |
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Hi Henry, Sean SKB request to mic type and performance for SKB's criteria please update the your comment at attached file fill in the cell "Vender's test result" |
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sorry i update again attached file |
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Hi SB Park, Please see my comment as below, 2. One board (STB + Audio amp block) 1) JWKim said that Audio amp block is designed another Korean company. And the Settop block and Audio amp block is not separated but designed One board. Sean: Got it and understand that. 2) In that case, which information is needed to you? - For example, schematic, pcb file, BOM and so on 3) If I give you the information of Audio block size, can you submit the One board pcb size? (One board means Settop block and Audio block) Sean: For item 2/3, could you share us schematics and board file(pcb file) for one board pcb size evaluation? |
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Hi Henry, Sean please update the datasheet of MIC which will you use SWAN |
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Hi Sean, Henry SKB give the SMPS detail spec of SWAN Please check whether SMPS is possible considering the schedule. |
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Hi Henry, Sean. I received 3d cad data for SWAN. (by Inkel) Please see the attached file. and update FII's answer 1. optimal One board size 2. can you add SMPS inside this material? If the size is changed, How much size should be increased (Length may be acceptable, width is not acceptable) 3. according to 3d data, the Settop board is located vertical, please update pcb size if PCB is located horizental. - see the below picure "A" - If you want to more area, I'll discuss Inkel whether "A" location is changed or not - "B" is a one board location SWAN_Mechanical_drawing.gif (32,121 bytes) |
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Hi SB, 2 vendors(BSE, Knowles) spec of Mic MEMS had beeb listed into excel file. BSE is FXN QVL, Knowles is not FXN QVL. Please see the attached file. Thank you. |
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Hi SB, Attached datasheet files. Thank you. |
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Hi Sean. Thank you for updating documents I have a question 1. why suggest to 2 venders? you think ALT(or SKB) choose one vender? 2. please suggest the better vender |
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Hi Henry, Sean. Could you please work SoC(VS550) library first? The SWAN schedule is very tough, so we should do pre work to save time. If you have any problems, please let us(ALT) know. |
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Hi SB, These two MIC vendor has similar performance and both can meet Customer's requirement. We suggest to use BSE which has Foxconn vendor code and better cost performance. |
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Hi SB, Here are some questions for the PDF file you provided on 5/18. Please comment. Thanks. 1. According to the 3d cad file, you need Fii to evalute the size for one board design (STB + Audio amp) and place the one board in location "B"? Can you please provide us schematics of audio amp? The information of audio block that you provided is not enough. We need to know how may components and the circuit deisgn for the audio amp. 2. For the SMPS power supply, does Inkel have a preferred location since it will affect product ID and the location of the AC plug |
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Hi Sean. I update my comment 1. According to the 3d cad file, you need Fii to evalute the size for one board design (STB + Audio amp) and place the one board in location "B"? Can you please provide us schematics of audio amp? The information of audio block that you provided is not enough. We need to know how may components and the circuit deisgn for the audio amp. [ALT] Location B : that's correct JW Kim is signing NDA to amp vender. after finishging NDA, I'll update component list and schematics 2. For the SMPS power supply, does Inkel have a preferred location since it will affect product ID and the location of the AC plug [ALT] FII can suggest to location of AC plug |
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Hi SB, One more questions. The audio block diagram you provided has 5 speakers (Woofer x 1, tweeter x 2, midrange x 2) which is different with the 3d drawing you provided(total 4 x speakers). Can you please double confirm if your 3d drawing and the speaker requirement is still the same as previous RFP requirement that Emma provided earlier (woofer 20W x 2, tweeter 16W x 2, total 72W)? |
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Hi Sean the latest version is below capture. and above block diagram is not applied any more. and audio amp is also changed AD83586B(1EA) to AD82584F(2EA). please see the attached schematics. I also ask Inkel to give us final version 3d drawing. and you first check the PCB size Speaker_unit_Swan.gif (11,465 bytes) Swan_oneboard_area.gif (18,420 bytes) |
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Hi Tom and Fu-Chiang, Please note that the speaker design is changed. Please refer to attached AMP SCH to evaluate the PCB size of the main board and re-evaluate the system power consumption. |
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Hi, SB Because AD82584F support 2x25W stereo or 1x50W mono design. In my opinion that we must use 3EA of AD82584F, 1EA for 20W Tweeter x2, 1EA for 20W Full Range x2 and 1EA for 20W Woofer x2. For mono design, because only one connector. So we must to connect the two Woofer speaker parallel together, right ? Please correct me if I miss understand. |
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Hi Mr. Tom Lee and Mr. Sean Chiang, SB Park is out of office today. So I checked with Astell&Kern. 1. The number of speaker are 6 totally. Tweeter x 2 , Full range x 2, Wofer x 2 And all speakers has 20W. 2. Additional amp for Tweeter. I asked it to audio company. They think your suggestion is good but we pay another Amp. They think that HPF is enough for Tweeter. 3. They use 2 Amps. One is for Full range speakers and tweeter speakers, and the other is for Woofer. Woofer is mono. But 2 Woofer speaker connect to Amp in parallel, and it make to increase power. 4. SoC and 2 Amps connected in parallel. Audio engineer said that it may use in many cases. I'm not sure about it. I think you can check it. If you think that is not normal or you have any idea about it, please let us know. If you have any concern about it, please let us know. |
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Hi Sean, Henry SKB Manager worried about MIC spec which you are suggested. they said 1. Sensitivity is a major key point which gather user's voice and AOP is a key point which gather a huge volume of SPK output without distortion. 2. FII's mic may receive voice with small volume because the sensitivity is -37dBFS 3. ln low power mode, AOP is 117dBSPL so the huge volume may have a distortion 4. could you please search again with the sensitivity -26dBFS, AOP 124dBSPL. (if these spec is impossible, the sensitivity -26dBFS, AOP 120dBSPL) |
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Hi SB, Do you mean that the SKB required the MIC sensitivity at standard mode should be -26dBFS and the AOP at low power mode should be at least 120dBSPL(124dBFS is better?)? |
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Hi SB, We have another question about power adaptor. Recently we found one smaller adaptor vendor which volume is approximately to spec(51mm x 129.5mm x (height under 33mm)). The model is UP1501H-XX which spec is 50.8mm x 101.6mm x 30 mm. But the consider the condenser which model is UP1501H-XXL the height will be over spec, 63.2mm x 115.0mm x 42.4mm. So our question is: 1. Does the condenser of power adaptor must have? 2. Could we have more space for power adaptor? Attached file is power adaptor spec. Thank you. |
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Hi Sean that's right. |
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Hi Fu- Chiang Young Do you mean that design SMPS? (not ESP adapter) |
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Hi, SY Yoon and SB Base on 5/21 reply, 3. They use 2 Amps. One is for Full range speakers and tweeter speakers, and the other is for Woofer. Woofer is mono. But 2 Woofer speaker connect to Amp in parallel, and it make to increase power. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One amplifier for Full range speakers and tweeter speakers, because AD82584F only 50W. So maximum power consumption of each Full range speaker and tweeter speaker are 12.5W, right ? The total speaker power consumption would be 12.5W x 4 (Full range and tweeter speaker ) + 20W x 2 (Woofer speaker ) = 90 W Please correct me if I miss understand. Thank You ! |
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Hi SB Do you mean that design SMPS? (not ESP adapter) ==>Yes Thank you. |
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Hi Henry, Fu-chiang Young SKB is reviewing whether SMPS is used inside SWAN or not. If they complete the decision, I'll notice this at mantis. |
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Hi Tom Lee please see the below picture (this picture SKP unit and Amp) each Tweeter and mid range SPK are connected to one HFP. this SPK can be divided with HFP. So each tweeter and mid range SKP can take 20W (L and R are same) AMP_Structure.gif (41,195 bytes) |
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Hi, SB OK, I understand. Total speaker power consumption are 80W. I attached the OTT PCBA placement for you reference. Please provide me the PCBA side connector datasheet which HFP and Mono speaker used. Thanks ! |
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Hi Fu-Chiang, Please send the updated MIC spec. of BSE to SB reference. Thanks! |
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Hi Sean. Tom Lee please suggest other pcb size for decrease length 1. option 1 you can stretch the width 2 option 2 Do not stretch the width. but you can separate the board (I/O port board and other board) please see the below picture and I also update the Mechanical design (that is not final version) iO port board.gif (142,092 bytes) |
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Hi SB, Update the MENS MIC spec. MIC sensitivity at standard mode is -26dBFS and the AOP at low power mode is 120dBSPL. The vendor is confirming with their enginer for the AOP at low power mode if could reach to 124dBSPL. Please see the attached file. Thank you. |
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Hi, SB I update the PCB dimension. Thank You ! |
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Hi Sean, Tom Lee thank you for updating I have some questions 1. you drawed 2 parts of PCB(i/o port block and Soc block). These pcbs can be seperated and change the location? or cannot seperate/cannot change location 2. In my opinion, this PCB dimension was drawed without schematic base. isn't it. could you please update the original PCB file. |
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Hi SB, 1. This is a single board PCB placement. Considering the cost of board to board connectors and the signal performance/quality concern. We recommanded to design as one board instead of two boards. 2. Yes, this is an estimated PCB dimension and placement. For the original PCB file, we need some time to work with our M/E RD to create the PCB file. Is it OK to provide you PCB file by next Wednesday? |
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Hi SB, According to the design structure of AMP & Speaker, can you confirmed that the overall power consumption of the AMP/speaker is 80W, evan if the speaker supplier uses each speaker with a 20W power? Thanks. |
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Hi Sean I have already updated my (and vender's) answer to Tom's Question at 05/26. please let me know why do you ask to AMP power again? please explain detail to me. and If you have other questions of AMP/SPK. Please let me know. I also ask vender to your question, so I'll update vender's answer asap |
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Hi Sean. thank you for supporting. please update PCB file at mantis 0000840 until 06/03 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi SB, 1. This is a single board PCB placement. Considering the cost of board to board connectors and the signal performance/quality concern. We recommanded to design as one board instead of two boards. 2. Yes, this is an estimated PCB dimension and placement. For the original PCB file, we need some time to work with our M/E RD to create the PCB file. Is it OK to provide you PCB file by next Wednesday? |
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Hi SB, Here we would like to update the adaptor as reference. Please see the attached file. Thank you. |
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Hi Fu chiang Young I don't understand why you update the adapter datasheet at mantis.? SWAN adapter will be supported through Buy and Sell. |
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Hi SB, During the RFP phase, we got the request to provide the advised ADP spec and quotation. Do you still need that now? Or you already got the needed ADP candidate? We updated due to the spec change on power consumption |
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Hi Henry SKB manager decided that ADP will be developed by Korean Vender lik Eagle. |
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Hi SB, Yes, we know the SWAN will support the adaptor. But this is just the reference specification for this project. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Fu chiang Young I don't understand why you update the adapter datasheet at mantis.? SWAN adapter will be supported through Buy and Sell |
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Hi Fu chiang Young According to RFP, it is not clear who develop the adapter. SKB manager decided that adapter will be developed by Korean vender like Eagle. |
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Hi SB and Yoon, There are 2 MIC vendor provides as attached files. One is provided before, and another new one is provided today by vendor. Could you please pick up one of them which is fit to SKB spec? Thank you. old one: [F5-(A)HDMOE-J098R26-5P]Digital MEMS MIC. Specification(New)_Rev.pdf new one: [MIC] F4-(A)HMOE-J098R38-F2160-5P_190422.pdf |
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Hi Yoon, Google highly recommends the MIC from Knowles. The spec FYI. I will explain in the email. |
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Hi Yoon, Upload the RGB LED datasheet which is used on BFX-AT100 project. Thank you. |
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Hi Yoon, Upload the LED 3D file which is 19-137-R6GHBHC-S1906-2T_V3 3D file. Thank you. led_everlight_r6ghy5c_1_1_1.stp (32,522 bytes) |
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Hi Sean, The Action items for today's meeting. please check it out 1. INKEL side. - 3d Modeling data . PCBA Main : Apply external power switch if possible . PCBA LED : Apply LED as shared . PCBA Mic 2. Main PCB 1) Amp connector information : DreamUS still wait connector and housing. SPK unit will use the connector you specified. : Yeonho connector is preferred the SPK Vender 2) Side LED requirement update : as ID Specifications, should be applied each side LED - Full color / Dimming control / have to control left and right respectively. - LED q'ty : TBD (each side 1 or 2, depend on mechanical design, Will update to you) 3) Thermal review : Elecap information : Please share the datasheet : Thermal simulation due date and report : Additional review points : add the Thermal barrier on TOP housing - discussed with Inkel, it can be possible to add "Thermal barrier" on the TOP housing - PCBA side should be cleared barrier area : thickness 1.2T (min), length TBD (As long as the elecap area) - Thanks SON Thermal barrier.png (21,081 bytes) |
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Hi SH, Please see my comment as below, 1. INKEL side. - 3d Modeling data . PCBA Main : Apply external power switch if possible ==> We are checking with vendor for the relevant power switch. Will update you the 3D of component once get update . PCBA Mic ==> The final one is not confirmed yet. Will provide ALT the 3D after the MIC been confirmed by SKB. 3) Thermal review : Elecap information : Please share the datasheet ==> I will share the datasheet through the email. : Thermal simulation due date and report ==> We have to fix the fixing hole issue first and ensure that our PCBA size is no longer changed, and then arrange the thermal simulation after that. Therefore, we will send you the datasheet of power switch first, and let INKEL to update us the latest 3D file. Then I will provide you the due date for the thermal simulation. : Additional review points : add the Thermal barrier on TOP housing - discussed with Inkel, it can be possible to add "Thermal barrier" on the TOP housing - PCBA side should be cleared barrier area : thickness 1.2T (min), length TBD (As long as the elecap area) ==> Let's do the thermal simulation first to see if there is any components or housing surface out of specification. And then we will consider the thermal solution in that time. |
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Hi Sean, Here is additional information updated 2. Main PCB 1) Amp connector information : SPK units will applied 20 AWG wire gauge. Please sourcing the connector that consider wire gauge,. If hard to chooses one. ALT can recommend. Thanks SON |
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Hi SH, Got your information. Hi Tom, Please note about this and ensure that the AMP connector we use in main board is no problem to connect with it. |
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Hi, SH We can't find the full dimension of replace part which full compatible with Yeonho SMH-250-04. Could you provide the datasheet of PCB side connector for me reference ? I attached the replace part datasheet (P/N: BM04B-XASS-TF) , PLS help to review it. Thanks ! |
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Hi Tom the Korean vender can apply foxconn connector. please let us know the matching connector information. Thanks SOn |
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note as I request connector information 0000832:0003727 : Close -> answered other Mantis 0000840:0003835 |
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I checked this Mantis for RFP. It seems that all issues opened in the rfp stage have been resolved. @Henry Please check again, then close this Mantis Thanks SON |
- yk.jung ( (ALTech) Younkwang Jung ) developer
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